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There’s a difference between creative and creating. While the former modifies a concept, the latter produces one.  And for some people, the latter highlights a drive to create, to make something. Even when people lack resources, they’re still able to put something together. As La Crosse musician Alex Spiegel explains, it was a simple observation that opened him to recording:

Alex: When I was a kid, I learned that if you plugged in a pair of headphones to the microphone output of a stereo that it became a microphone. That’s how I started recording. I would record using that.

For him and others, it’s more than a precocious teenager who has a natural ability. Creating is about taking the next step—being more than the person who moves from project to project, yet never seems to get anything accomplished. Or the neighbor who has lofty dreams, but can’t get past daydreaming.  For Eau Claire film maker  and La Crosse area native Steve Dayton, there’s a meeting place between ambition and actualization:

Steve: It’s all of about the goal you have for the project itself. You can’t go in…you have to go into the project for the right reasons. You can’t go in with fame and money, and everything. It’s not about other people. It’s about what you want to do and what you are willing to do to push yourself to create this project. Between my first feature and gIVE, it wasn’t just sitting around. It was building stuff. It was doing little projects. Maybe it’s doing stuff and not showing something. So, if you are making a cabinet don’t think you’re going to get hired to make cabinets for a bunch of people. Start making them in your garage and keep honing in your skills. That’s how you complete projects. You just do them.

With the advent of technology and the internet,  it appears that anyone should be able to pretty much do anything. Recording software comes preloaded on your computer. Your new phone has a camera light years ahead of consumer models from ten years ago. Many impossible projects are explained in condensed, ten minute YouTube videos. With these limitless possibilities to enter into these new creative landscapes, Steve and Alex’s work on the independent  feature film gIVE poses classic questions among developing Maker Movements and DIY Cultures in general: how many people actually take the next step? And, better yet, why do people keep creating when success is limited?

Kids like Movies

Even as a child, Steve always gravitated towards movies. It’s not uncommon. Star Wars and Muppets in Space, colorful products like these are designed to attract kids. It’s their job: Get more kids and get more money. It’s simple math.

When Steve was a teenager, it wasn’t contemporary films like Billy Madison or Clueless that got his attention. It was a movie his older brother brushed aside:

Steve: Oh he was like “The Godfather is a classic.” And then he watched, [he said] “It’s alright.” Then I was “Umm, I’ll watch it”… the way that it was lit, the way that the story goes, the characters. I was just like “These are the types of movies that I want to make.”

Steve was now hooked. He put himself behind the camera whenever he could: high school projects, birthday parties, or family reunions. Nothing was trivial. Everything became an opportunity:

Steve: I think it’s when you are putting a camera in your hands, and you’re starting to think, This looks terrible. Why does this look terrible? I put light. I need a light. Because, this is movie making, so you put it right on their face. This looks terrible. So, how does this all work? So, you start messing around with things. And back then, we didn’t have the internet, so it was figuring it out as you go.

 So looking for a new opportunity after high school, Steve enrolled in Western Wisconsin Technical College’s media production program. Steve stepped into the program at an interesting time—when technology shifted from analog devices to digital platforms. The early 2000s was another opportunity for Steve to develop his chops. On the whole, his love of video was a solid foundation for contributing to an organization as a media producer. Education, businesses, government agencies, marketing firms, and the film industry, all use effective communicators to hit a target market. If anything, he could spend two years at the tech.  And when it was done, if he didn’t like the idea of making films, he could work for a local TV station or advertising agency running a camera.

But as Steve points out, the program only increased his interest in the film industry:

Steve: And then there was still that calling of Hey, I still want to make it in the movie business. So, I toured a couple of film schools. And quickly realized that they didn’t have what I was looking for. I just rather take that movie and move out to LA.

And moving out to California wasn’t an empty threat he said to scare his parents. It was a real option. In his early 20s, recently married, no children, some money, and a big dream, if not then, when would be a perfect time?

So, Steve set his sights for Hollywood.

Walking Inside the Film Industry

The major motion picture industry isn’t designed for entertainment. It’s designed to make money. A lot of money. And, we’re not talking about a couple of billion of dollars. We’re talking about 40 billion dollars annually. That’s more than GPDs of Greenland an Iceland combined.

The industry has many moving parts. There are actors, agents, directors, screenwriters, producers, executive producers, talent scouts, set designers, marketing firms, publishing deals, and the list goes on. If you actually watch a movie’s end credits, there’s a reason it’s over five minutes. For a machine designed to make money while entertaining you, there’s a long list of jobs.  And near the absolute bottom of this list, that’s where Steve found himself:

Steve: It’s more about filling in, production assistants fill in the pieces of work that nobody else wants to do [laughs]. So, there’s two kinds of general production assistances: there’s office PA or an on-set PA. I’m terrible with office work, so I never wanted to answer phones or work on contracts. What I wanted to do was lock down sets. It’s silly things like we’re shooting down this hallway, so stand here so random people don’t walk through the shot.

Many of these jobs aren’t glamorous. They’re entry level. And, that’s to be expected. LA is filled with young, talented people who are green to the industry. As a Wisconsin native, he’s not Hollywood lineage.  So, as long as Steve wasn’t doing anything morally compromising, he was game. And he did hit a few rough spots, like getting yelled at by George Wyner, of Spaceballs fame, for not cleaning George’s trailer well enough. And a literal low point, although he finds it funny:

Steve: It was a movie that I was working on. They brought in a ditch digger to make a grave. They were like “This is not big enough! So, send some PAs!” So, I had to grab a shovel and dig it out, so we could do a shot of someone getting buried…something like that. I don’t even remember.

After two years, Steve was moving from project to project pretty well. Although many of his jobs were still as a PA, he was meeting people, making connections, and getting tied to larger productions. While of the set of the horror comedy, How to be a Serial Killer, Steve had a moment of clarity:

Steve: I was working on an independent movie that spent like 2 million dollars. And I was looking at this and [thought] this isn’t a 2 million dollar movie. I could make something for 5 grand, in La Crosse, and it would be a better movie than that.  So, I started thinking of some ideas. This idea of a zombie punk band came to mind of What happens when the evil music agent brought back a band, but they are zombies. And it took place on the first night of their opening show. And what would happen in that situation. So, I started to write out the treatment of that. And the more I did that, I [realized] that I don’t want to stay out here, hoping I get a chance to do that. I’m just going to go and make something. If I have to work another job while I do that, I’m going to do that.

So, the Daytons packed, said their good byes, and made their journey back to Wisconsin.

The Wisconsin Movie Industry

Besides the geographical and demographical differences between Los Angeles, CA and La Crosse, WI, there’s a pretty big logistical difference: People don’t come to Wisconsin to star in movies. It’s simple. The industry, the connections, and the talent was built in California. And this simple fact, it was becoming more apparent to Steve:

Steve: I think the biggest thing between LA and other locations around the world is, or in the United States is, just everyone who is working in LA is there to make movies and understands sometimes it’s month on and then it’s four months off. And so, coming back to the Midwest , and trying to, you know, ask people to take two weeks off from their jobs, and work 12 hour a day, it’s a tough ask. And you just have to work around people. And I say that film making is the ultimate team sport. So, just trying to figure work what works for everybody and do it like that.

Hollywood taught him more than team work. It taught him how to be resourceful and to use the tools he had. If he needed punk band, why not use a local one? So, he opened up his computer and went to a trusted place, Myspace:

Steve: I had an idea of a punk band and I had a specific sound that I was looking for. So, back in the day, I was searching Myspace for local bands in the La Crosse area. Because, that’s where I knew I was going to be. And then I found a couple and The Disabled came up. And I was like, “These guys are prefect. And I love this music.” So, that just amped up the whole thing for me. And I [thought] this is going to be way better with The Disabled. So, I reached out to the band and said, “Hey, this is what I am thinking about.” Which is always a scary thing, because you don’t know. It kind of sounds like….It’s kind of creepy to be like “Yeah, I’m making a movie and do you want to be a part of it.” And, they were game. So we had some conversations and I told them my plans. We went from there.

And for Alex, Steve came at the right time:

Alex: And the craziest thing when I look back is that it didn’t seem weird at all.  There was just a lot of stuff happening with The Disabled as that time. And honestly, someone saying “We’re going to put your music in a movie” [was] okay and fine. There really wasn’t a lot of thought behind it. Basically, we did an original for Steve. And also, it should also be said that [The Disabled] built the only underground studio in La Crosse at that time. Basically, every band we were playing with was recording there. So, to do another recording on just a Saturday afternoon, which what it was, wasn’t very strange at all. Super normal. There was no anxiety. There was no concern. We said, “Okay, just another Saturday.”

To be honest, it really wasn’t just another Saturday. Alex developed his skills as a drummer in punk bands throughout high school and college. During this time, he was getting restless, not necessarily with the music, but with the formal of three piece rock bands in general. So, he set his sights on, let’s say, a more ambitious project—after seeing Zardoz, a 1974 sci-fi, fantasy epic starring Sean Connery. From a certain point of view, the film is a disaster or a misunderstood masterpiece—with the movie’s biggest impact being the Connery’s questionable S&M, pre-Heman costume. Alex didn’t want to remake movie. He wanted to rescore it. He had a studio. He had an idea. So, he had nothing to lose:

Alex: I seriously thought it would be fun to take a movie and redo the score, like do a joke score. Doing that, which I did it, which I won’t show anyone, it was a tremendous amount of work. There’s a reason people don’t do that. It’s incredibly complicated. And no one would ever do it. And, it’s not really a joke after a certain point.

So, when Steve approached The Disabled, Alex scaled down his ambitions:

Alex: With Pop Punk, we just did the band. It was just the band. And even the song that we did was something that the band could have done. I am always looking for that next hurdle. You read stories about like Trent Reznor moving into that new genre [film scoring] and doing it well and successfully obviously. And you are always like “What if I was given that opportunity? What would it look like?”

Steve got la carte with The Disabled’s catalogue. This was good. The band was 100% independent and self-financed, so there wasn’t ASCAP or record label lawyers to deal with. Hollywood taught Steve this: Cinema is a complex business:

Steve: A lot things [going on in Hollywood]. Back then, ten years ago, a lot of things going on. Everybody has their projects that they are working on. Everybody is writing a script. Everybody got shorts they’re making. Everybody is trying to move up. And, I was one of these guys: “I’m making shorts too. I’m writing my own stuff.” So, everybody is talking a lot about it. But, there’s a lot of legit money out there. I was working on stuff, tiny budget stuff. But still, that’s $500,000 that someone using to make a movie. Back then, they’re running it through the system., getting distributors, and [being] able to make money off of that. That’s the kind of stuff that gave me [the idea]: If these people are doing and spending a ton of money, what happens if I bring my price point down, but keep the quality the same or even better, is there a market for me?

It’s not all on that director’s shoulders. They’ll have a producer who’s [going to] attach other people to it. You know, you’ll have a cinematographer, and if you attach talent—that’s why talent is such a big thing—if you can attach talent…. You know show business is all about the business. So, if you can hire this [actor] to do it for 30 million, but you know with these stars, you’ll make your 30 million back.

It’s estimated that Pop Punk Zombies cost well under $10,000. To put that number into perspective, Carpool Karaoke costs around 2 million per 30 minute episode.    Needless to say, Steve had limited resources. Filmed at a local club, the Warehouse, with local actors—many of whom if not all worked for free—Steve hit the ground running. He wrote the story so directing the actors wasn’t an issue. After filming wrapped up, he switched gears and began editing the movie.  As producer and executive producer, he was calling the shots, so he had creative control.  And, he was  able to find a distributor, Brain Damage Films, who has distributed such works as Strip Club Massacre and Incantation—starring Dean Cain, who you may remember from the ‘90s television show Louis and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, or when he dated Brooke Shields during the ‘80s.

On January 10, 2011, Pop Punk Zombies hit the screen and Steve completed a goal that alluded him since he was teenager: He made his own feature film.

The Dark Side of B-Movies

The thing about b-movies, or low-budget films in general, is simple: It’s a tough game. Working under budget  has produced classics like Night of the Living Dead, and even modern critical darlings like Blue Ruin. If fact, the box office powerhouse Guardians of the Galaxy is masterminded by James Gunn, who started in with Troma Entertainment, a titan in b-movies.  Adding these factors together, b-movies have made one of the strongest fan bases in cinema, who commit time and money through conventions and film festivals.

Often times though, b-movies have some of the toughest critics. And Steve was about to see this. Ain’t It Cool News wrote, “the makers of POP PUNK ZOMBIES had a great idea, but lacked the skill or talent available to pull it off. In the end, what you get is something that feels put together by a bunch of friends in love with the genre, not by professionals.” And Horror Society was slightly more forgiving: “I won’t completely discredit the movie because of this and I will recommend this movie to zombie lovers because it’s not bad but don’t go in thinking that it’s a masterpiece.”

These reviews may sound harsh. Or at least, not encouraging to the viewers or the team behind the film. But, Pop Punk Zombies actually got reviewed. And on top of that, viewers even called out critics. User Russell Zoloft on IMDB said “[Critics] are the same people who buy a second hand Hyundai off of Craig’s List and complain that it doesn’t run like a new BMW. These are the type of people who, as employers, complain that they don’t get devoted, professional attitudes from their minimum wage employees.”

And none of the criticism appeared to stop Steve. It may have been discouraging, but Pop Punk Zombies does everything a b-movie should: It’s cheap, dirty, and fun. Still, Steve was getting burned out of the process:

Steve: You have to make stuff for yourself. You can’t make stuff for other people, who are going to [love it or hate it]. It’s the same thing. You have to bring what you want from that project and own that. So, there was a lot of time where [I said], “I don’t know if I want to make anything anymore.” I need some time to forget what that pain is like before you can step back out on that stage and make something new.

Making gIVE

Still, there was something more innocent that stopped Steve from jumping into his next feature: adulthood. Married and starting a family, he had to do a priority check. So, he took his talent elsewhere and continued to work in media production—doing commercials and marketing campaigns for area businesses. And that should have been that. I mean, he made a movie, and he got it distributed. And he accomplished a goal. Until one day, he had an idea:

Steve: It came out of my two biggest fear. My fear as a kid and fear as an adult. My fear as a kid was being taken away. I remember laying in bed and thinking Is someone going to steal me? Are aliens going to come and take my body? That was my fear. And then as an adult, losing a child would be devastating obviously. And what is the greatest pain and loss you can feel as a human?

Steve continued to develop the idea for gIVE. And he wasn’t going to play it safe and stick to a traditional story. The premise of gIVE focuses on a husband and  wife whose daughter is taken away by an unknown force. And the slow disintegration of their lives. It’s not a clear cut abduction thriller like Taken or Misery.  He really wanted to push himself, not only as a filmmaker, but also a story teller. So, Steve mixes elements of sci-fi and art house into the film—which pushes audiences into unfamiliar territories:

Steve: So there’s kind of a fractured storytelling that goes into gIVE—that kind of mimics the thought process of our main character [Jay]. It’s that battle of how do you deal with extreme loss of a human being, and how do you find answers [not looking inward] but in other people, finding empathy in other people’s problems. And just kind of building from there how you can get through tough things. And so, it’s more of that concept of We are all going to face some terrible loss, we all face terrible pain, how do we get through that?

Steve also had to contemplate how he was going to make another feature. It’s not the same as taking the family on a weekend vacation. But he had to act like it was. In other words, he had to count his resources against his responsibilities:

Steve: I kept working. I kept building my knowledge. So, overall, I am a better film maker than I was when I made the first movie [laughs]. And then, technology kind of came along. I bought a new camera. And I kind of had the idea, I have a new camera; let’s shoot a new feature. And it was a lot of the same things that went into Pop Punk Zombies that I did with gIVE. It can’t be too much time, so let’s take three days and we’ll do just really long days and shoot as much as possible. So, I did the majority of principle photography within those three days and would pick up random shots to help the story along as I saw fit over this last year.

While three days may seem reasonable, it’s only the beginning. Making an independent film isn’t easy. Among pre-production, location scouting, and other logistical concerns, there’s other factors as well—like availability, overhead, and your day job. Even simple factors become issues. Like, “who’s going to act in my movie?” It may seem as simple as going to the local community theatre and asking around. But without an inroad there or at the local college, Steve’s request looks more like an abduction episode of Forensics Files than a director wanting to make a movie about abduction.  Still, he was able to cast former Pop Punk Zombies actor Jason Anderson as the lead, while giving smaller roles to family members and other friends. He was able to round out the cast when a friend-of-a-friend recommended Suzy Murty as the final lead.  And as filming started, Steve began to notice something special:

Steve: Bringing people along for this weird journey and this weird experience, I always find it funny that trying to convince people to come and work on the movie is kind of challenging sometimes. A lot people are “Oh, that sounds fun.” But, it does take time and it does take effort:

When we start making something, and we start shooting, there’s this, it sounds silly, but there’s this magic that happens that you lose track of time. Lose track of the world. We’re kind of playing in this make-believe land. Specifically, with this movie, I had a guy who came and worked crew for one day. And it was our second day of shooting, and me and [Jason] are already pretty tired. And this guy after showing up for a couple of hours, he’s ready to go for another 13 hours. And we are dragging. It’s just that spirit of him bringing his energy to the process. It just so exciting.

Steve rode this energy after the principle shooting ended and ran with it while editing. Still, he hit wall:

Steve: Because, one of the things I originally thought of doing was the score myself. That is an awful idea. That would have, we would not be talking for sure, but sometimes you have to bring in people who are going to raise the project up. You know, me thinking about doing the score, and me saying No that’s not happening. [I] had a couple of people in mind.  And I was like Alex and I have stayed in loose contact. But, I was watching him. I sent him a message and said, “Hey is this be something you would be interested in?” And he was like “Yes. Send me the movie.” So, I sent him the movie. Right from the gate, he roughly knew what he was getting into.

Even Alex will admit, he “roughly” knew what do:

Alex: The first thing that I learned after, I think I did four [attempts]. So, I would do like a run of one or two songs and present it to Steve. And Steve would go “Uhhh….okay?”  I was like “No, no. You like this. This is good!” and because I didn’t know anything about movie score, the first thing that I was going to do was a Velvet Underground or like noise sort of thing—where there were drums a tribal sort of thing and just feedback guitar. That’s basically what is was going to be. And Steve was like No. If that’s what it’s going to be, you’re not going to do it.  And, at that point, I realized that I really wanted to do it….So I started diving into I am not going to do what I am use to. So, that was the first leaving your ego at the door. This is now a job. It’s not what I think is cool. It’s what Steve thinks is cool.

Leaving your ego at the door

Leaving your ego at the door can be difficult. Especially with independent projects, it’s usually one person’s vision, and supported through his or her own resources.  Alex, just coming off his first solo project, Union Wheels, did everything independently. Built a home studio. Recorded all the instruments. And self-distributed it. Now, getting a chance from Steve, his goal of scoring a movie wasn’t a daydream. It was an objective—with real outcomes.  So, after Steve rejected his first score concept, Alex started back a square one. And, he realized, it was a good thing:

Alex: I did the thing that I should have done at the beginning: What do you want? And he was like This is what I want. He put me down this road that I don’t think, if I told you what he wanted, I don’t think you would say that’s what you created. But, it was basically gospel meets sci-fi. Going into this movie and all this stuff, I even told Steve, in a conversation, to do this correctly, I have to leave my ego at home. And I have to realize this is not my movie. This is your movie. And basically do what he wanted. And I think what he wanted was the correct thing to do.

Alex admits that a gospel meets sci-fi score isn’t exactly in his wheelhouse. Although a fan of sci-fi literature, his biblical retelling of Stranger in a Strange Land isn’t too helpful in this case. His conversations with Steve center on the thematic undertones of gIVE:

Alex: What instruments would fit with the theme of the movie? One of the things that we settled on was it wouldn’t be fancy instruments. It would be very low-fi instruments.  And we tried to do instruments that would relate to gospel music but weren’t necessarily gospel music. But, also bringing in that element of sci-fi. So, the soundtrack itself, basically there’s two types of songs throughout the soundtrack: Sci-fi indicating that we don’t know what’s going on. And then there’s more classical piano pieces with strings. I didn’t want to start out with those instruments. I thought they were cliché.  I thought I was doing what you expect. But, what I learned going down the road is that there’s a reason why people use those things. There’s a reason why there’s strings in most movies. Blazing guitar playing makes it difficult to hear dialogue. Like, drums are awesome for a beginning of an action movie. They are not awesome for a sensitive motif.

The back and forth banter between Alex and Steve wasn’t as dramatic as one could assume. As Steve recounts, it was an enjoyable conversation between like minded people, guided by a single purpose:

Steve: Yeah, it was defiantly a softer approach. I am not “Alex this is terrible!”  It’s more of him reading my messages and [me saying] “Yeah, I think this will works?” And him saying “I didn’t think this works.” And [me saying] “Okay? Give it another shot?” [laughs]. But like you said… there’s three scores out there that no one ever going to listen to. That are very impressive, but didn’t fit. So, like you said….

Alex: It was weird. I realized I was losing the point. I know, this project that you are doing for free, that’s going to have minimal fanfare, I realized that I wasn’t doing a good enough job. Like…there’s certain types of personalities. And there’s lots of personalities like Well, fuck. I’m not going to do this. But first, I was like Steve wants to do a movie. He’s going to let me do it. Okay?  And then I was like I really want to do this!   I would never say [the score] is me. But after a certain point I was like I’m going to fucking do this. This is going to get done. No matter what. If I have to learn piano better to get this done, I’m going to learn to play piano better. My viewpoint was I might not get this opportunity again. Like when I said “You have to leave your ego at the door” when you do that it kind of stops being fun. I thought this would be easy, no big deal. Then I realized No. You have to learn, if you can’t play piano well enough and you have to get someone to play piano or you have to simplify your idea. And I didn’t want to make a score that’s traditional and I think in a lot of ways it is. When I realized that it wasn’t me, it was the project, and I have to do things that I am not comfortable with that’s going to take a lot of time and using [different] instruments and tools to do it, I would never say that the score is a reflection of me. It’s a reflection of the movie. I did a job. The main focus was I might not get this opportunity gain. So, I might as well give it a shot.

Alex’s drive to push his abilities amplifies Steve’s drive as well. Their momentum isn’t an isolated event. In fact, even as they talk about gIVE today, Steve and Alex’s conversation mirrors not only the dialogue between creative personalities, but also the audience’s journey as they watch gIVE:

Alex: When you listen to the soundtrack, it’s in the order of the movie of course. If you go farther down, there’s more development. Then there’s the last song, which there’s a hundred million instruments and all this kind of stuff. There’s more development throughout [the score]. I started with the first song, but I liked it so much that I couldn’t go back. But, I understood the score more in the middle. So, what you should do is start with third or fourth song, and then the fifth or sixth song. Movie scores have gone in the way that end credits are not considered cliché. No body does that anymore. No body has the Star Wars ending credits song. That’s considered lame. This one has one of those songs [laughs].

Steve: But sorry. Can I ask a question?

Seth: Yeah. What’s up?

Steve: After saying that the beginning of the score gets more developed…

Alex: Mmmm.

Steve: ….Do you think that matches the movie itself? As the movie goes it gets more developed?

Alex: That was the second part of [Seth’s] question: how do you figure out what to do? That’s the least hardest part for me. I just kind of go I know what I want to do. That’s the fun easy part, filling in all the colors. The hard part is I know basically what it’s going to be as soon as I see it. Then it’s figuring out the thing in my head. The hard part is figuring out what’s in my head. So it goes, da-da-da-dada, and then I go nana-nana-na-na. That’s the hard part, getting [the motif]. And then, once that’s done, you fill in the stuff. Filling in the bass. Bottom to top.

gIVE: How will audiences react?

There’s a disadvantage to having audiences fill in the blanks. It’s not easy. And it’s not always successful. Looking at gIVE objectively, the movie is goes against the grain. No stars. No Hollywood backing. No multi-million dollar post-production team. And no purpose besides intentions of its creators. And to top it off, it’s not an easy film to understand. It’s a thinking piece, and these movies often falter with mainstream audiences.  Unlike Steve’s last film, which followed a more-or-less conventional horror plotline, gIVE isn’t embracing that. It’s a position that Steve knows:

Steve: It’s definitely one of those movies you have to invest a little thought in, That, while you are watching, maybe daydream a little bit and think What’s going on with these characters? What are they feeling? Why are they feeling this? Have I ever felt like that? And kind of go through the ride like that. Hopefully, you only [at this point and to no fault of your own] watched the first 20 minutes. Hopefully, as the movie goes on, some of those things get answered.  But, I think, overall when people finish this movie some people are going to like it. Some people are not going to like it. Overall, I got something form making it. Which, like I said, kind of the biggest deal.

Seth:  Isn’t that kind of scary? When you want to do something that’s different, and difference is usually not accepted by a lot of people. They want to hear something that’s commercial or that’s part of the cultural industry. Like, you do this. You do that. Verse-chorus. Repeat. Verse-chorus.  Or with a movie: Girl falls in love with a boy. They have a fight. They get over it. They get married. Or action movie: America always wins. But, when you start to deal with a structure that’s not linear, or plots that are not easy to digest, or there isn’t a clear villain or clear a hero—that’s when people can start to not necessarily get tired with the movie [but struggle with understanding it]. It’s one of those things. A lot of movies I do like are weird. They don’t make sense. They make you think. But you, me, and Alex, we aren’t like a lot of other people. There are more of them than there are of us. Wasn’t it kind of scary to take on with your second project, to do something that’s a little more artistic and that’s not like the Kool-Aid for the masses?

Steve: Scary, not really. Because I am going to continue what I am going to do. So, whether you like or not, I am going to continue to make movies. But, I do think that I disagree with you: There might be more people out there who have a hunger for a different type of cinema and would really enjoy this. And maybe it won’t be everybody’s cup of tea. But in the long run, I don’t want to sound that so I’m pretentious like “Like it or don’t like [its art]”. But, that’s every piece of art or every movie that’s made. There’s going to be people that don’t like it or there’ll be people who like way more than my first movie.

Steve doesn’t avoid critics. After working in Hollywood and on his own films, he’s developed a thick skin. And, it’s been a necessity, a part of learning how to process negativity in general:

Steve: Don’t want to say it’s kind of looked down [upon]. Whenever I mentioned [making movies], it’s in both places. Whenever you mention that you are making your own project, people kind of have that Oh yeah? Really? Shh, tell me when it’s done. We’ll see. We’ll see how bad you fail. It’s creating a community that supports each other—instead of [a community] that has this jealously of I hope their project doesn’t succeed because then me not doing a project makes me feel better.

Steve and Alex are part of a growing community. Evidenced today more easily through YouTube, Instagram, or Esty DIY culture, also referred to as a Makers’ Movement, is everywhere.

On one hand, it’s an exciting crossroads, a place where technology, ability, and creativity can intersect.  You know, the neighbor who finished a cabinet, she posted a video on YouTube. Those former classmates who argued about sports, they now stream it to a few thousand followers. And those lawn ornaments you saw at a garage sale, you can also buy them online. Now, it’s easy to take your ambitions and turn them onto society.

On the other hand, this crossroad isn’t paved in gold. In fact, you could use a gold reserve to support it.  As Alex explains, it’s an interesting paradox that many people struggle to manage:

Alex: And it’s changing, like the Marker Movement. And more and more people, millennials  seem to be more [inclined to follow it]. It’s not strange to have a podcast. That’s not strange at all. And I am surprised that people will listen to low-level podcasts about things that I can’t imagine they would be interested in. There seems to be a general level towards a community based art movement.  I think there was a perspective where you were in a band on a record label on the radio or you were a cover band. And there wasn’t any in-between. Especially during the ‘90s, you were either a band trying to become a band on the radio or you’re a cover band. And I think there is a growing consciousness that you could be taking music, or movies, or painting very seriously and never have had the opportunity to make money off of it.

The great artistic time of America, especially for like music, was in the ‘60s. With Dylan and all the great musicians of that time period, it was that they were able to make money off of an art form. And the problem we are seeing now is that it’s very, very difficult to make money off of an art form with streaming and platforms like that. There is a growing understanding that just because you don’t have the opportunity to make someone else money off of your art, doesn’t necessarily mean your art isn’t serious.

And Alex’s sentiment isn’t uncommon. Art and money isn’t an easy business. And sometimes, it’s easier to just take the beaten path, making something that sells. And for Alex and Steve, it’s not about that exactly. It’s about creating something you need to make:

Alex: It’s a tremendous amount of work to create an album. And even times a million to do a movie. And there’s all this stuff. You can buy a camera that works amazing for a couple grand you know—which might have cost you a million dollars before. And like, that doesn’t mean that there’s a lot of movies coming out. There’s a lot of TikTok videos. But, 99% of Instagram accounts aren’t interesting and no one would consider them art.

Steve: I think honing your craft is something that way more visible now a days.  People are making more stuff.

Alex: Steve would have made this movie if he had to use his phone. He would have done it. It wouldn’t have been a TikTok video. It would have been a for real movie.

Steve’s drive to continue, in all honesty, adds an extra layer of complexity to gIVE. If you think about, making a movie in central Wisconsin, with mostly volunteers, under limited resources, during a short timeframe, while working and managing a household, it’s a lot of work. And, it’s overwhelming at times. As Alex comes to realize, this entire process isn’t this week’s trend for Steve. It’s his life:

Alex: What I didn’t know, he was giving me cuts. It was like the first time I saw a movie uncut. It doesn’t look like a movie. It’s crazy. It’s like five hours long! I was like This is what’s like? It was such a learning experience. But, this is what I realized: This guy is no joke. So again, what I was saying, is his movie a reflection of the Maker’s Movement for untalented schmucks having an opportunity to get out their art? No! What this thing is like, this is the real deal. He was going to make this movie anyway. And to just be allowed to peruse this is an interesting job to have. And that’s what is was: It was a job and its payment was that I got to be involved.

Just being there and helping someone create something, from a certain perspective, just seems too ideal, a little too perfect.  And, we can assume that’s how it should be. Look at what you can do and leave your aspirations until tomorrow. As Alex and Steve put the final touches on gIVE, they remind us how creating isn’t someone’s  limited perspective. It’s more than that. It’s about people coming together and pushing one another past their ambitions. It feels like you’re breaking rules. But in times like these, we need people like this:

Alex: It’s that same thing. I have to do this.

Steve: Right.

Alex: And that’s kind of the most interesting thing is the whole, the people who have to do it. No matter what. They have to do it.

 Steve: You feel like you are breaking the rules. But, we definitely need people like that. Instead of asking permission, you are creating new stuff. Or, it’s just going to sit there. Or, it’s just going to be wasted. You need people to invest in themselves and invest in life. I mean, that’s living right. That you are going out there and doing something with your time. The entry point of making movies might be easier now a days because cameras are more affordable. You can shoot a whole movie on your iPhone. But, it still takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. There’s still a lot of commitment that goes into it. And it doesn’t have to be, especially with everything going on, it can’t all be in Hollywood. We can be here in Eau Claire. Or in Ohio. Or Texas. You can be making stuff and you can be creating stuff. And we have to keep doing that.